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D&B is A SCAM to be sure!
I called D&B to remove a second 'entity' that didn't exist. They then explained that I had a "less than favorable rating(s)" and if I joined for $700/yr, I can submit more references. I joined just so I can make sure everything was letter perfect as the government's CCR & WAWF payment system is directly tied to D&B.
A week later I received an email 'alert' saying that a rating of mine had improved. Today, another week later I received another 'alert' saying another rating improved. I hadn't done a thing except pay them the $700 and all of a sudden my ratings are improving!
They don't even say who is reporting to them the timeliness of my payments to vendors. I pay very fast, I don't use credit, yet this is one of the items they cited when roping me in to pay; that I was slow to pay, some 17 days later than the 'norm'.
SCAM, SCAM, SCAM
http://www.newcreditrules.com/newcreditrulescom/2009/04/business-owners-do-you-know-your-paydex-score.html
According to its website, Dunn & Bradstreet, or D&B for short, is the world’s leading source of commercial information and insight on businesses. Its global commercial database contains more than 140 million business records, which provide customers with quality business information and the ability to make informed decisions. Customers primarily use D&B’s resources to mitigate credit and supplier risk. It provides a wide range of business statistics such as liquidity ratios, asset management ratios, debt management ratios, and many other benchmarking tools. The most popular tool is the PAYDEX score.
According to its website, Dunn & Bradstreet, or D&B for short, is the world’s leading source of commercial information and insight on businesses. Its global commercial database contains more than 140 million business records, which provide customers with quality business information and the ability to make informed decisions. Customers primarily use D&B’s resources to mitigate credit and supplier risk. It provides a wide range of business statistics such as liquidity ratios, asset management ratios, debt management ratios, and many other benchmarking tools. The most popular tool is the PAYDEX score.
The PAYDEX score is D&B’s unique dollar-weighted numerical indicator of how a firm paid its bills over the past year, based on up to 55 percent trade experiences reported to D&B by various vendors. The D&B PAYDEX score ranges from 1 to 100, with higher scores indicating better payment performance. A score of 75 is roughly equivalent to a FICO score in the low 700s.
The D&B website is impressively thorough, much more comprehensive than any site for personal credit. (I am not aware of any personal credit bureau that gives you a sample of its report online with a detailed explanation.) As for business credit reports, you can even view a sample of all three types of reports that D&B offers: the Basic Credit Report, theStandard Report, and the Premium Credit Report. The cost per report is $59, $119, and $159 respectively.
- We are a subscriber to the on-line Hovers Database. As I am sure you are aware, they are owned by D & B (and I assume share significant data with one another).Out of curiousity, I pulled up Architel.Interestingly, they have Architel rated as “LOW RISK”, and have had for some time. It does make you wonder……..
After post D&B revises our risk rating!
August 25, 2010 By 3 Comments
Just last week I wrote a post titled, “Dun & Bradstreet Class Action Lawsuit?” where I explain how D&B explained to other businesses that our company had a “High risk of severe financial stress of the next 12 months”. Here is what our potential customers saw:
This week, after I wrote the post, D&B has ‘updated’ our “Supplier Evaluation Risk” from an 8 to a to a 4. Here is what our potential customers see today:
D&B still suggests we pose a “Moderate risk of severe financial stress over the next 12 months”, but at least we are almost in the ‘green’ section of the chart.
Again, I stand by my previous post when I explained, “I think there is a potential for a massive class action against D&B on several counts – but most importantly their propensity to offer credit advice without sufficient data. D&B should have to disclose that on accounts, like ours, they simply don’t have enough data one way or another. They can’t possibly know whether or not our company is likely to fail based on the data they have collected. Their data is used by our potential clients to hire us. How many clients have looked at this data and decided that since we are ‘likely to fail in the next 12 months’ they will choose another vendor? How many other clients have low PAYDEX scores and ‘High Risk of Failure’ warnings where there is little or no data available? I would be happy to sign our company up as a lead plaintiff. I can show a loss of at least $1,000,000 in billings as a result of their 66 Paydex report on our company. Let me know if you want to join by filling out this form: D&B Class Action Sign Up“
Dun & Bradstreet Class Action Lawsuit?
August 18, 2010 By 25 Comments
Have you ever heard of a company called Dun & Bradstreet? They are ‘sort’ of like Experian for businesses – supposedly helping their subscribers to make credit decisions about suppliers. Recently a potential client of one of our company’s ran a D&B report on our company. The score came back very low and the company scored a 7 on a 9 point scale of likeliness of failure. Ouch. I contacted D&B and asked them what the issue was. They indicated that they only had four of our vendors reporting payment history and one of them reported a 90 day late payment of $50. I was flabbergasted. They were publicly reporting that our business was likely to fail (7 out of 9) because one of four vendors indicated that we were late on a $50 invoice. The D&B rep indicated that I could pay approximately $400 and begin ‘building’ my report through a tool called Self Monitor. I paid the fee and began adding my vendors to the system.
I was flabbergasted. They were publicly reporting that our business was likely to fail (7 out of 9) because one of four vendors indicated that we were late on a $50 invoice. The D&B rep indicated that I could pay approximately $400 and begin ‘building’ my report through a tool called Self Monitor. I paid the fee and began adding my vendors to the system.The company pays out around $250,000 in payables each month to more than 100 vendors. Additionally we have credit lines ranging from $1,000 to $500,000. Out of these vendors D&B only had four. Our controller added more than 100 vendors and we were surprised how many would not agree to report payments to D&B. Companies like AMEX, Chase and Ingram Micro were unwilling to share credit history with D&B – later I learned they didn’t want to pay D&B a fee for the pleasure. Evidently, D&B is collecting fees from the companies that report and from the companies that are reported on. Wow.
One week later we were able to raise our ‘PAYDEX’ score from 66 to 77 by just adding a few additional vendors to the system. This morning I got an alert from D&B explaining that they had INCREASED our companies financial risk number from 7 to 8 – meaning they estimated that there was a HIGH risk of our company’s failure in the next 12 months. Our ‘PayDex’ score was improving, but D&B is now reporting that we are likely to fail. This company is ten years old and has been profitable since 2002 – why would D&B suggest we were likely to fail? What data are they using to come to this conclusion. Here is the chart the D&B account rep showed me:
Just a week after we opened out account with D&B and began helping them build our credit someone in the computer manufacturing business suggests that we have a payment 61-90+ old that is less than $1,000. I talked to our controller and she has no record of any late invoice – much less one for less than $1,000. I asked the D&B rep who was reporting the 61-90+ day late payment, but they would not release the name of the vendor. I assume the vendor who reported the late payment wants to get paid – why wouldn’t they want me to be able to contact them to get paid? The D&B rep couldn’t explain why the policy was this way. I then asked the D&B rep why they would issue a public report that we were likely to fail despite the fact that 99% of our vendors are reporting we pay within terms? I reiterated that we spend about $250,000 a month in payables – it seems crazy that a company would publicly report that we were likely to fail because an anonymous company reported that we were late on an invoice less than $1,000. She could not explain why.
I think there is a potential for a massive class action against D&B on several counts – but most importantly their propensity to offer credit advice without sufficient data. D&B should have to disclose that on accounts, like ours, they simply don’t have enough data one way or another. They can’t possibly know whether or not our company is likely to fail based on the data they have collected. Their data is used by our potential clients to hire us. How many clients have looked at this data and decided that since we are ‘likely to fail in the next 12 months’ they will choose another vendor? How many other clients have low PAYDEX scores and ‘High Risk of Failure’ warnings where there is little or no data available? I would be happy to sign our company up as a lead plaintiff. I can show a loss of at least $1,000,000 in billings as a result of their 66 Paydex report on our company. Let me know if you want to join by filling out this form:D&B Class Action Sign Up
Comments
- I just want to know why y’all are in need of “coal mining services?”
- take this ish down.
- okay buddy, look at the history D&B was the first official Credit Company, before your Experian was even a twinkle in the credit reporting worlds eye. C’mon man, this whole article is defamatory and doesn’t make a compelling argument to support your “class action”, move on.
- I’m in and I hope you sue this %^&*’s They are doing the same thing to us and it needs to stop. To many small bsuienss are getting pushed around by these people. I would be more than happy to put up $10,000 to cover legal fees if this projects moves forward.
- If you are a sole proprietor business wouldn’t your personal FICO score be enough info for a prospective client? D&B called me to say that I can’t look at my report unless I pay them 250.00. Sounds like the mafia.
- I had the same thing happen to me. I tried everything to resolve my issues with these people but got no where. I would love to join in your suit. After reading your blog, I brought the subject up at a chamber mixer and found 5 other small compnaies that had the same experience as you. We all would be whiling to join in, these peopel are like the mob, just pushing there weight around. Their high risk unit in New York are rude and nasty people.Count on us!
- I am having some of the same issues – they want $440 for me to “correct” the errors they have on file – including an old business name and address that is 5 years out of date – when it was folded into my now 5 year old business they neglected the new name and location for the old! And they say I am three weeks overdue paying someone unidentified!
- Mick,
So, how long a company has been in business determines whether they are trustworthy or not? I would like for you to be in my shoes. I have been in business for over 30 years, and D&B has been playing the same games with me. They have damaged our ability to do business through no fault of our own. They have even admitted fault, and yet have done nothing to improve our situation. Feel free to respond, and I will be happy to contact you directly, and open my books, forward their e-mails, etc.
There needs to be some accountability on D&B’s part. - Interested. Every time they call me it costs me $500 dollars with another “must have” product that we need in order to keep our credit scores favorable.Now they’re telling me our scores went down slightly but they wont tell me who reported or why unless I pay them another $300 dollars. I just told them to go to hell today.Any updates as to whats going on with this lawsuit?
- We have emails from them saying it was wrong, should have not been there in the first place and telling us the item was removed. Aweek later it is back on our report. You have to make sure it is blocked not just removed.We have proof in writing which will stand up in court based on the fact these items were taken off our report and then reappered over and over again. It’s called playing games. We are going to sue dnb for 10 million dollars for damages and punitive damages.Until the Federal Govt steps in and passes laws to protect businesses against business credit reporting company’s such as DNB and the others, we as business people can only sue them and hope to win. This company really needs a BIG kick in the ass to strighten them out.
- Don’t want to use my real name or company out of fears of what the D&B credit mafia may do. I have the same issues as other responders. Credit roller coaster without benefit of my input. One $50 late pay because of a disputed invoice out of 3 million annual payables shouldn’t affect your score, but they don’t seem to weight any of their information. They are in business only to sell products and want you to do the work to maintain your rating. However, while they aren’t the only game in town, they are the largest and most used reporting agency for business nationwide. A congressional look-see may be the best answer.
rich says:
To response of Mick,
Obviously you do not run a comapny. Prime example of D&B tactics is what happened today.
We have been in business for over 4 years, revenue and profitablity have grown each year.
Our PAYDEX score is 80. Perfect.
Our subscription ran up at the end of March.
I received an email today saying that we were having our commercial credit class dropped to 3, with a high risk category for delinquent payments. Reminder, our crapdex score is perfect.
I call and speak to a young lady and am told about the renewal on our subscription to them, and miraculously if we pay the fee and renew, these things could be changed. REALLY!!!!!!!!!!
She proceeded to say that our crapdex score is 80, her words ” wow, your score is 80 that is perfect”. Really, then please explain to me how ironic that we are told of this drop in relation to the expiration of the service.
The more I read and talk to people it is amazing what seems to be going on.
Sign me up. What a racket, what a gimmick.Jimbo says:
One of our customers noted our paydex score on one of their reports as showing our company to be a slow payer with above average risk. As the CFO, I know that these scores are terribly inaccurate. I looked at some recent reports of two of our worst deadbeat, slow paying customers and their ratings were better than ours. Preposterous!!I never did put much stock in D&B ratings when evaluating credit applications from customers, but many large customers and suppliers routinely use D&B ratings in their evaluations.- The beginning paragraph of this article describes my story to the “T”…. If D&B does not have accurate information then they should not be allowed to distribute any information to our customers. When I told the lady this on the phone her answer is “well, we disclose it on our report that the findings may not be complete or accurate”. They can admit fault but yet slander your company. My business credit is tied to my personal credit score over 800 and these people give me a risk of an 8 because I do not have enough debtors. Sorry I operate a debt free business. I am in on this suit for sure…
Rodney says:
What is the status of this? Our ratings are incredibly inaccurate from D&B. We have revenues in excess of 8M annually, show profitibilty year over year the past 9 years exept one, yet D&B is killing our Paydex score and other scores. One inaccuracy among many is a vendor we supposedly owe 40k to that doesn’t match our books. There is another for I think a thousand bucks. We ask who this companies are that we supposedly owe money to and they won’t tell us. We dispute, they ask the “mystery vendor” if they have permission to take off of our report and the “mystery vendor” says no so it stays. We then dispute and the cycle repeats with no resolution. Each dispute is a 30-60 day cycle. I have had heated conference calls with D&B asking them for the name of these pinheads that are reporting this stuff so I can get it cleared up and they refuse. I actually said “What do I have to do, file a lawsuit against you guys to find out who these people are that are reporting on me?” Their response? “Well, some companies do elect to do that sir”. These people need to be kicked in the teeth with a HUGE class action lawsuit for this kind of stuff. And the arrogant attitude.Josh Sorensen says:
I totally agree. They are reporting us as high credit risk based on $5k in transactions reported to them in the past 2.5 years. We spent something like $10M in that time period. Of course to have them correct the file and include accurate information we have to pay them. Total extortion.Bruce says:
D&B would not update my address info unless I paid $69 for three months “service”. 8 months later I am still getting billed $69 a month. I called a month ago & tried to cancel my D&B “service” and got slapped with another monthly charge this month on my credit card.I Googled “D&B complaints” and found there are many who say once a “service is started it never stops” ( and you won’t get it back). If you complain they lower your credit score with them and say you are likley to fail. They strong arm the small businesses and use “Mafia Tactics”.I called again to complain & they told me there is no charge to update an address. That is total bull crud as I tried 8 months prior with no sucess. I told them so but they still said there was no charge required. Now I am out the $ and am waiting for the other shoe (my business rating) to drop.There should be a class action suit. They are a scam outfit.InBusinessWithNoDebt says:
DnB is a scam. The fact is use terribly little data about companies to obtain their “opinions” about them. For example, we have nearly $20 Million in revenues and no debt but you can have 1-2 “angry” vendors who may have unresolved issues or disputes with- which can happen wen you are making thousands of transactions a year – and DnB can extort $500 from you?Scott says:
I completely agree with Alexander. D&B has done the exact same thing to me and my business. I hope this is still active. I have paid them over $1,500 and our financial stress score is still grossly inaccurate, causing us harm with our existing clients and prospective new clients.Linda says:
How good is your site. You are so right about Dun and Bradstreet, Veda Advantage and all other debt collecting agencies. Get your class action going. I am about to start my legal action and not wait for the class. My business has been destroyed over the last 4 years by credit reporting agencies making false allegations without any consultation as to the rightfulness of claims made and presented to the world at large. You cannot get anything more damaging that an trumped up money grabbing organisation presuming it is correct without consultation and reference. Image the rampage I could create if I set up my own credit rating company and put every bank and every public utility company or telecommunications company upon it that carried out a crime against an individual. This year I have had my electricity account stolen from one company by another, I have been defamed for 4 years by a telecommunications company that provided no service to me and continued billing me after the end of my contract period, I have been sent exhorbitant bills for electricity when the lights have not even been turned on. Yes I so agree with you. Credit reporting agencies are purely defamatory and should be banned from existence. The damage they do to an individual is way disproportionate to the missing of a payment, or the refusal to pay because nothing on your account is right, or more importantly that you don’t even have an account with a company and have never opened one. Also look at the banks. What type of criminal activities do they carry out on your credit cards. Have you ever had a credit card that has been paid out, it has been declined to your use but the bank decides to let everybody else use it as they wish, including themselves. GO GO with class action. I want my day in court and will spend much more than $10,000 to bring these bastards to the same accountability as each and every individual has to endure. I would also like to see them suffer the same destruction as the individual when an entry is made against them. In times of financial tightening an entry of a trivial amount that is under dispute anyway is the end of any financial negotiations. The cost to the individual is disproportionate to the inability in some cases to make a payment. These organisations make financial lepers out of hard working honest people and force them into higher interest rate. Why should we take this treatment. Why should the individual suffer, when governments and countries and economies cannot even manage there finances effectively. The small timer is doing a far better job of financial matters than, the government. Back to the credit agencies. Just try to get a false report off your record! Impossible. You will encounter lie after lie after lie after lie. I am up to four years and have decided to launch into legal action at this very time. These organisations should not be allowed to exist. They are damaging and parasitic. Financial judgements about people should be made upon their integrity, and their financial wealth and income and asset backing, nothing else. The existence of such a company brings us back to the days of “tell tail tit” and malicious little actions from malicious little enterprises hopefully will come under the scrutiny of the new ACL. Lets make it happen.Outraged says:
We have the same exact story with our business. Experian and the regular credit companies show us as being strong, with high credit scores, and creditworthy. D&B on the basis of one anonymous vendor that can’t possibly be ours (because the credit was owed before our company was even in existence!) is reporting that we are the highest possible credit risk. They won’t tell us the name of the vendor. I pointed out that the date was earlier than the establishment of our business, went on their iUpdate pages and reported it there. I received an email a month ago saying that item had been removed from our report, but when each time I check our report, it is still there and it is still the basis for the extremely low credit score. So I no longer believe that these unhappy vendors are even real!I think D&B are like the Better Business Bureau – a type of extortion racket! They hold businesses hostage and they know it. Count me in on a class action lawsuit.- We have the same issue. We have perferct credit but when I said I would no longer pay them their outrageous fees they are killing us. Constantly lowering our score, saying we have all these late payments. I have contacted every vendor they all say we dont report to D&B because we arent paying them. Well when I asked D&B who was reporting they said we cant tell you. Really its my profile. If there is a lawyer wanting this case I want to pursue it.
joe says:
D&B is a scam. Can ruin you company by using vague information. I have a customer for 24 years who sent me an email saying my bus. was in trouble please put my mind to ease? Some vague info , graphs ? Non Sense, He said send me 2 years of your Fed tax andincome statement because D&B sent them incorrect information and get this my Fed Tax Id #er was wrong. Put my mind at ease- I too hope that this is still active. I have been struggling to get our business address changed for over a month now. The only way I was told to do this is by getting an iUpdate account. The number on the D&B website is not for help, but their sales department. The first time I called, someone transferred me to a non-working number. The second time I called, they transferred me to someone with a TV playing and kids screaming in the background and saying that they didn’t do address changes. The fourth time I called, I got someone demanding money for changing the address – when I balked, they actually gave me the true ‘help’ number. The person on the 5th call has been the most helpful. She emailed me a ‘manual authorization’ form. I had the completed and notarized form along with several sensitive documents sent by UPS next day air to their Austin TX address. The form instructions said that I would hear back from them with a yes or no answer within 10 business days. Nothing happened. I checked the tracking number, and it was delivered and signed for. I called D&B the 6th time 15 days after the package was delivered. The phone connection was very scratchy and the person I spoke with had a very heavy accent. She said that they never received the package, and the email address they had on record for our company was an aol.com address! I was really upset that not only did they lose our sensitive documents, but they are in contact with who knows who about our company. She said that someone will call me within 48 hours. A week went by – no call. I emailed the person who had sent me the D&B iUpdate manual authorization form and explained the situation. She apologized and said that someone from D&B would call me within 48 hours. 4 days later, no call. I think there needs to be an oversight agency over D&B. How can they continue to treat companies this way and get away with it. Are the only people who get service are the ones who pay them?
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- [...] with Alexander Muse’s ongoing problems with the credit rating agency Dun and Bradstreet (See Dun & Bradstreet Class Action Lawsuit?) and I couldn’t help but think here is an old fashion Financial Services business that is [...]
